As someone with life experience on both sides of this issue…
Seriously, this meme is bullshit. Yes, it is a fact that men are also on the receiving end of domestic abuse.
Statistically speaking, however, women get the lion’s share of receiving it, while men are culturally groomed to be emotionally closed off. (At least here in the states)
Google is taking these statistics into account when returning search results in an attempt to get the most relevant information to the user.
Is that Google’s problem or a larger cultural issue?
Does absolute equality in Google search results push the needle toward change?
Does posting a meme that highlights a “problem” lacking context (or purported purpose, as stated by OP in another comment) affect change in the way the issue is understood, or does it just serve to generate emotion and engagement?
If you (meaning anyone) genuinely want to affect change on this issue, you need to educate yourself on what’s actually happening. Talk to your family and friends about it and lessen its impact on future generations.
Many changes start with people posting about it, like it is very likely if this blew up Google would modify the search term to include the help line for both, so I disagree that it is bullshit in that regard regardless of OP’s intent
Thanks for minimizing the abuse I went through. Fuck you. Maybe a big part of why men are underrepresented in abuse statistics is because we are considered the abuser by default and are expected to just suck it up and take it. Go eat a bag of dicks, apologist.
This way of looking at things is called collectivism. It’s the sort of philosophy that considers it okay to treat and individual according to the average experience of their group. For example, when someone points out that a woman can easily get help and a man is told to stop and consider his abuser’s needs, collectivism says “yeah but that man’s problem is smaller”.
Well, that’s the implication. That his problem is smaller than a woman’s problem would be.
It’s never actually said. Instead it’s described in terms of statistics and numbers. And these numbers describe the collective experience, not the individual experience.
OP is making a complaint from an individualist point of view: if a particular man is being abused, then that man faces significant obstacles in getting help.
Just because fewer men than women experience problem X, doesn’t mean that a man with problem X suffers less than a woman with problem X.
Dismissing the experience of the individual, or implying that it’s “bullshit” to highlight that individual experience (which is horrifying, as I know from being on one side of this issue, which is all the perspective I need to evaluate how horrible it feels and whether it’s okay).
People think the words collectivism and individualism map to:
Collectivism: considering others’ needs
or
Individualism: considering only one’s own needs
That’s not what those words mean. What they mean is:
Collectivism: Considering the needs of a group, and making ethical decisions based on group situation descriptors (such as statistics) and the implied sums of experience. Holding groups responsible, as a unit, for crimes. Recognizing groups, as a unit, for their accomplishments.
Individualism: Considering the needs of the individual, and making ethical decisions based on the individual’s situation (such as stories, relationships, health status, etc). Punishing or rewarding individuals for the actions they themselves committed.
But it’s not even a matter of policy primarily. It’s not like this policy is collectivist and that policy is individualist. Most prominently, these are lenses through which to view the world.
One of the dangers of collectivism is exactly this kind of reasoning (when collectivism is applied erroneously to individual policy or problem evaluation). Because more women experience X problem than men, we should prioritize the individual women’s problems over the individual man’s problems.
I am not accusing you of having said or implied the previous sentence
Now, collectivism isn’t bad or good. Individualism isn’t bad or good. The danger arises when one doesn’t distinguish between them. In the above italicized thought, for instance, a collective issue is used to make decisions about individual response. That’s not so good.
An example of good collectivist reasoning and ethics would be like: “After experimenting with different carbon tax rates, we have found that $65 per ton extracted results in the climate stabilizing”.
Collective problem, collective analysis (those atmospheric CO2 readings basically involve all of us), collective solution (a law, which applies to everyone in the group, i.e. all Earthers)
An example of good individualist reasoning and ethics would be like: “Mike is constantly yelled at by Susan. Almost every day, she goes off the handle and yells at him for hours. His health is suffering from this. Therefore we’re connecting Mike with a shelter and a social worker who’s going to help him learn that he’s too valuable to accept that treatment”
Collectivism, Individualism. Two lenses for looking at problems, just like physics and chemistry are two ways of looking at the world.
Yeah but if someone is searching “why is my wife/husband yelling at me,” the statistics on abuse for that sub-popularion may not be as skewed. And providing resources for men (especially men with children) doesn’t take Google that much more effort/money, and it provides a much needed service. As it stands, it is nearly impossible for an abused man (especially one with children) to seek out help using the types of services that are available for women. So if Google can help with that search a little bit, what’s the harm in showing that info? Aaand, even for someone searching about their abusive husband, the googler may be a man, and most services that are for abused women don’t have resources for men.
Key thing: I ran the search, and the second result is the abuse hotline. And the first result also references the hotline in the preamble, but goes on to provide advise geared towards a communication based relationship problem.
They’re not choosing to deny the information to men, they’re highlighting information that has in the past proven most useful to people with queries like this.
Since there are different rates of domestic violence for different groups, different queries will have different “most helpful” results. As long as that’s the case, you’ll be able to find some query that’s on the threshold.
As someone with life experience on both sides of this issue…
Seriously, this meme is bullshit. Yes, it is a fact that men are also on the receiving end of domestic abuse.
Statistically speaking, however, women get the lion’s share of receiving it, while men are culturally groomed to be emotionally closed off. (At least here in the states)
Google is taking these statistics into account when returning search results in an attempt to get the most relevant information to the user.
Is that Google’s problem or a larger cultural issue?
Does absolute equality in Google search results push the needle toward change?
Does posting a meme that highlights a “problem” lacking context (or purported purpose, as stated by OP in another comment) affect change in the way the issue is understood, or does it just serve to generate emotion and engagement?
If you (meaning anyone) genuinely want to affect change on this issue, you need to educate yourself on what’s actually happening. Talk to your family and friends about it and lessen its impact on future generations.
Shit doesn’t just change. We make it change.
Many changes start with people posting about it, like it is very likely if this blew up Google would modify the search term to include the help line for both, so I disagree that it is bullshit in that regard regardless of OP’s intent
If it didn’t make Google do something the other 473664 times it was posted on reddit, a Lemmy post isn’t gonna do it
Thanks for minimizing the abuse I went through. Fuck you. Maybe a big part of why men are underrepresented in abuse statistics is because we are considered the abuser by default and are expected to just suck it up and take it. Go eat a bag of dicks, apologist.
deleted by creator
You’re an asshole.
deleted by creator
K
Making horrible accusations against people because they expressed frustration in a comment is really shitty. Peak Reddit.
Not cool, mate. Too far. disappointed face.
deleted by creator
This way of looking at things is called collectivism. It’s the sort of philosophy that considers it okay to treat and individual according to the average experience of their group. For example, when someone points out that a woman can easily get help and a man is told to stop and consider his abuser’s needs, collectivism says “yeah but that man’s problem is smaller”.
Well, that’s the implication. That his problem is smaller than a woman’s problem would be.
It’s never actually said. Instead it’s described in terms of statistics and numbers. And these numbers describe the collective experience, not the individual experience.
OP is making a complaint from an individualist point of view: if a particular man is being abused, then that man faces significant obstacles in getting help.
Just because fewer men than women experience problem X, doesn’t mean that a man with problem X suffers less than a woman with problem X.
Dismissing the experience of the individual, or implying that it’s “bullshit” to highlight that individual experience (which is horrifying, as I know from being on one side of this issue, which is all the perspective I need to evaluate how horrible it feels and whether it’s okay).
People think the words collectivism and individualism map to:
or
That’s not what those words mean. What they mean is:
But it’s not even a matter of policy primarily. It’s not like this policy is collectivist and that policy is individualist. Most prominently, these are lenses through which to view the world.
One of the dangers of collectivism is exactly this kind of reasoning (when collectivism is applied erroneously to individual policy or problem evaluation). Because more women experience X problem than men, we should prioritize the individual women’s problems over the individual man’s problems.
I am not accusing you of having said or implied the previous sentence
Now, collectivism isn’t bad or good. Individualism isn’t bad or good. The danger arises when one doesn’t distinguish between them. In the above italicized thought, for instance, a collective issue is used to make decisions about individual response. That’s not so good.
An example of good collectivist reasoning and ethics would be like: “After experimenting with different carbon tax rates, we have found that $65 per ton extracted results in the climate stabilizing”.
Collective problem, collective analysis (those atmospheric CO2 readings basically involve all of us), collective solution (a law, which applies to everyone in the group, i.e. all Earthers)
An example of good individualist reasoning and ethics would be like: “Mike is constantly yelled at by Susan. Almost every day, she goes off the handle and yells at him for hours. His health is suffering from this. Therefore we’re connecting Mike with a shelter and a social worker who’s going to help him learn that he’s too valuable to accept that treatment”
Collectivism, Individualism. Two lenses for looking at problems, just like physics and chemistry are two ways of looking at the world.
Yeah but if someone is searching “why is my wife/husband yelling at me,” the statistics on abuse for that sub-popularion may not be as skewed. And providing resources for men (especially men with children) doesn’t take Google that much more effort/money, and it provides a much needed service. As it stands, it is nearly impossible for an abused man (especially one with children) to seek out help using the types of services that are available for women. So if Google can help with that search a little bit, what’s the harm in showing that info? Aaand, even for someone searching about their abusive husband, the googler may be a man, and most services that are for abused women don’t have resources for men.
Key thing: I ran the search, and the second result is the abuse hotline. And the first result also references the hotline in the preamble, but goes on to provide advise geared towards a communication based relationship problem.
They’re not choosing to deny the information to men, they’re highlighting information that has in the past proven most useful to people with queries like this.
Since there are different rates of domestic violence for different groups, different queries will have different “most helpful” results. As long as that’s the case, you’ll be able to find some query that’s on the threshold.
Streisand effect go!