Hey folks. I’ve had an on-again, off-again relationship with Linux for over 20 years. Usually, my attempts to use it are either thwarted by issues installing, issues booting, or general problems while using it… leading to “catastrophic failure” that I can’t fix without digging into hours of research and terminal commands.
Windows 11 (even 10) are rock solid for me, even as a very heavy multitasker. No crashes. No needing to reboot, unless I’m forced to with an update, and really no issues with any hardware or software I was running.
But with Linux, I just can’t believe how unstable it is, even when I do the absolute basic things.
I’m trying to learn why this is, and how I can prevent these issues from coming up. As I said, I’m committed to using Linux now (I’m done with American software), so I’m open to suggestions.
For context, I’m using a Framework laptop, which is fully (and officially) supports Fedora and Ubuntu. Since Fedora has American ties, I’ve settled with Ubuntu.
All things work as they should: fingerprint scanner, wifi, bluetooth, screen dimming, wake up from suspend, external drives, NAS shared folders, etc. I’ve even got VirtualBox running Windows 11 for the few paid software that I need to load up from time to time.
But I’m noticing issues that seemingly pop out of nowhere on the software/os end of things.
For example, after having no issues updating software, I get this an error: “something went wrong, but we’re not sure what it is.”
Then sometimes I’ll be using Firefox, I’ll open a new tab to type in a search term or URL, and the typing will “lag”, then the address bar will flicker like it’s reloading, and it doesn’t respond well to my mouse clicks. I have to close it out, then start over for it to resolve.
Then I’ll open a different app, sometimes it might open, sometimes it won’t.
Or an app will freeze for no obvious reason, and I’ll get a popup asking to wait or quit.
Another time I left my computer while I went out for a walk, came back, and it was like I just rebooted… all my work was gone, and it was starting fresh from the login screen.
I’m trying not to overload things, and I’m doing maybe 1/5th of what I’d normally be doing when running windows. But I don’t understand why it’s so unstable.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
FWIW, I’m not keen to switch away from Ubuntu, because I do still want official support if there’s ever a problem with getting hardware to work.
UPDATE: Wow, I did not expect to get so many responses! Amazing!
Per suggestions, I ran a memtest86 for over 3 hours and it was clean.
I installed Fedora 41 and am now setting it up. Seems good so far, and elevated permissions can be authorized with biometrics! This was not something I had to. Ubuntu, so awesome there!
Any specific tips for Fedora that I should know? Obviously, no more Snap packages now! 😂
UPDATE 2: Ok, Fedora seems waaaay more stable than Ubuntu (and Mint). No strangeness like before… but not everything works as easily. For example, getting a bridged network adapter to work in virtualbox was one-click easy on Ubuntu… not so much on Fedora (still trying to get it working). And Virtualbox didn’t even run my VM without more terminal hackery.
But the OS seems usable, and I’m still setting things up.
One thing I have noticed, however. When I search for how to fix or do something, nearly all websites and forums reference Debian/Ubuntu commands, so the fragmentation there is a little annoying
Choosing Ubuntu over Fedora because of American ties is rich
Can you explain? I mean, anything is better than a Microsoft OS, tbh.
But I’d rather avoid American-based distros if I can.
I’d say Fedora is one of the best distros even the founder of Linux uses it. It’s FOSS like all of Linux, people can see if there’s an issue. Ubuntu has made a lot of decisions recently such as pushing snaps that people dislike. Most big name distros are connected to corporate funding, that’s how they continue to be maintained. Finally, Canonical being British owned certainly doesn’t make it better, possibly worse privacy wise.
Edit: conflating big American tech firms that steal your data with big America tech firms that make FOSS is just silly.
conflating big American tech firms that steal your data with big America tech firms that make FOSS is just silly.
For sure. But also seeing Americans as friends and allies… and now we (Canada and the rest of the world, but not Russia) are being attacked with threats on our sovereignty, just doesn’t seem normal anymore.
Nothing that used to be logical can be taken as such now. An American tech that makes FOSS is still an American tech. And I hate even having to say that, because I would have gladly supported American FOSS just a few months ago.
I think you’ll find nearly every significant FOSS project will have American contributors software in its development. Typically, anyone who can code and wants to contribute can do so.
recently
Unity and Mir would like a word
because FOSS has no country lines, and fedora is a bit better nowadays.
Bro. Framework is an American laptop.
I bought it before the coup and threats to my country! 😂
Well I assure you Fedora is on the leftist side 😂
Something is awfully weird here, because Linux literally runs the worlds infrastructure for the internet. It is not unstable by any stretch of the imagination. Something you’re doing between all distros has got to be the culprit - something you do differently than other people.
OP is a newbie and is externalizing his lack of knowledge.
A 747 would seem like a death trap if a toddler were given control but there, as here, it isn’t the plane that’s the problem.
Coming from Windows, Linux (especially when only talking about GUI environments) seems to not tell you anything about your problems. Eventually you learn how to find the relevant logs and the problems seem less arbitrary.
I installed Arch on my daily driver because I wanted a challenge.
It’s too dependable, even when updating every other day and installing a bunch of nonsense from the AUR. Where’s my challenge?
You need to stop worrying about “official support.” You aren’t a business so it doesn’t matter for you. There is more support out there online for free than you realize. There’s nothing magical framework does for you that doesn’t get ported out everywhere else eventually anyway. Stop limiting yourself like that.
That being said, Ubuntu is built in Debian. Debian is an incredibly solid and stable distro. Ubuntu does do a few questionable things with it but it’s still very reliable. If you have problems with stability, it’s very unlikely Ubuntu is the problem unless you did something so incredibly stupid to it support wouldn’t help you anyway.
I have a theory. Windows can dance around memory corruption issues in ways Linux just refuses to do. Windows will misbehave in strange ways trying to make things work until it just can’t anymore. Linux is more of a binary thing. It works or it doesn’t. It’s not going to play pretend for you. It refuses. Linus has an obscene hand gesture for your hardware.
I want you to get a copy of memtest86+ and boot it off a flash drive. Then just let it beat the shit out of your CPU and ram for a couple hours.
Framework laptops are generally Intel. Intel hasn’t been making the best stuff over the past few years. It’s possible your cpu might be affected by a flaw Intel tried to cover up for a while. If it has it, nothing in earth will ever make that chip reliable. It’s not fixable. It will only get worse with time no matter what OS you use.
I was told Ubuntu was a good beginner distro and used it for like a year and then towards the end of that year things got weird. So since then I’ve moved to arch, because it rolls so much and I don’t keep up, it’s even more unstable. I got some other laptops running bazzite (fedora based) and they seem ok.
So yeah, like your edited comment, I would recommend fedora or even vanilla Debian.
This has not been my experience. I’m not on Ubuntu, but OpenSUSE and NixOS. Everything works and operates as expected everytime. The only issue once was nvidia driver updated versions before kernel did and I had to reboot to a previous snapshot and wait a few days till the kernel update was released to work with whatever happened to the driver. But 8 years of a dependable system otherwise
If you’re using Ubuntu make sure you’re using the most recent LTS release instead of the latest one. Stability issues shouldn’t be a problem on those.
Usually with Linux, once you start out you’re gonna get a ton of issues and you’ll have to troubleshoot them one by one. However, afterwards it should just be a smooth sailing.
Also as a word of warning from my personal experience, official support isn’t something you should be that concerned about. When it comes to software, when some corporation makes some official version for a specific distribution (like Ubuntu), it usually is made by some B-team and doesn’t work that great. If the program is good, it should be available on most major distros rather than just “an official version for just one” if that makes sense.
Also good call - if one distro is causing a fuck ton of issues, just give another one a try. The main difference for users between distros is what kind of software setup they are going with, and some setups are just prone to issues on some hardware or wasn’t tested properly. Still, I do hope Fedora treats you better.
it sounds like something underlying is wrong, so would test everything that is underlying your system.
a memtest is the easiest first check. i wouldn’t rely on the one that’s on your system since it could be bad too, but it’s still worth it give it a try since it only takes a few seconds. if it finds anything, then there’s definately something wrong with your hardware.
instead, i would rely on a usb stick with the ubuntu image you downloaded. first verify that the checksum for the ubuntu image you have on a trusted computer is the same that ubuntu has on its website. then copy it to your usb stick and then use memtest from there. if it comfirms that your ram is okay, use ubuntu’s installation tools to verify that image on the usb stick is good; google or deepseek can show you how with easy to copy/paste commands.
in your shoes, i would re-install because at his point because then there’s confidence that the base steps are verified and should be working correctly and then you can move onto othere testing strategies if you continue to experience the same behavior.
Using only non american oss is literally impossible.
You need to start with Linux mint. The errors you are mentioning are common in ubuntu, crashes happen and popup all the time on my ubuntu installations too. But never on Mint. Mint is based on the stable version of ubuntu, that it has long term support and it’s regularly getting updates to make it even more stable and secure. So please start with Mint, or Debian 12 (although Mint is better for new users).
I honestly think mint is an outdated suggestion for beginners, I think immutability is extremely important for someone who is just starting out, as well as starting on KDE since it’s by far the most developed DE that isn’t gnome and their… design decisions are unfortunate for people coming from windows.
I don’t think we should be recommending mint to beginners anymore, if mint makes an immutable, up to date KDE distro, that’ll change, but until then, I think bazzite is objectively a better starting place for beginners.
The mere fact that it generates a new system for you on update and lets you switch between and rollback automatically is enough for me to say it’s better, but it also has more up to date software, and tons of guides (fedora is one of the most popular distros, and bazzite is essentially identical except with some QoL upgrades).
How common is the story of “I was new to linux and completely broke it”? that’s not a good user experience for someone who’s just starting, it’s intimidating, scary, and I just don’t think it’s the best in the modern era. There’s something to be said about learning from these mistakes, but bazzite essentially makes these mistakes impossible.
Furthermore because of the way bazzite works, package management is completely graphical and requires essentially no intervention on the users part, flathub and immutability pair excellently for this reason.
Cinnamon (the default mint environment) doesn’t and won’t support HDR, the security/performance improvements from wayland, mixed refresh rate displays, mixed DPI displays, fractional scaling, and many other things for a very very long time if at all. I don’t understand the usecase for cinnamon tbh, xfce is great if you need performance but don’t want to make major sacrifices, lmde is great if you need A LOT of performance, cinnamon isn’t particularly performant and just a strictly worse version of kde in my eyes from the perspective of a beginner, anyway.
I have 15 years of linux experience and am willing to infinitely troubleshoot if you add me on matrix.
I use Linux sine 1999 and I prefer Mint. It works just fine for everyday users. The thing wiht Mint is that it has setting panels for most things, and it makes sense as a design. It might not have the latest support, but what it does, it does well. The same can not be said about other distros in conjunction to care-free users.
Honestly, your usage of linux since 1999 is why I don’t trust you know what’s best for beginners. I give tons of people linux, mostly the elderly, cinnamon has been an absolutely terrible experience for them. You’re highly experienced and used to something that works for you, the best choice for beginners changes more than you do.
but what it does, it does well.
Can you not say this about fedora/bazzite?
The same can not be said about other distros in conjunction to care-free users.
The very purpose of an immutable distro is to stop carefree users from doing exactly that, until mint makes an immutable distro, it simply isn’t the best choice for beginners.
Do they not care about mixed refresh rate displays, mixed dpi displays, the security issues involved in x11, etc? I think they will prefer if those things just work. Mint doesn’t have that, sure what works works well, but that’s true for fedora/bazzite too… and more works.
I’ve been running Linux for 20+ years as well (on-amd-off for most of that, but mostly on). Stability has almost never been an issue, only when I was fucking around and finding out lol. My biggest problem in recent years was Ubuntu never having what I wanted, and Arch always having what I needed… So I just moved to Arch and things have never been better.
This. If you’re going to fuck around with your root, be prepared to find out. Most other problems is a quick search, “oh I don’t have x dependency”, and done.
Nowadays you just need to learn how to use Timeshift and make a save point before messing with stuff. System unstable after tinkering? Time to roll back. Linux is easier and more stable than ever before.
Just stay home, literally in your system, and you’ll be fine 99% of the time.
One thing I have noticed, however. When I search for how to fix or do something, nearly all websites and forums reference Debian/Ubuntu commands, so the fragmentation there is a little annoying
I’m using Nobara, which is based on Fedora, so I hear you, but the only thing you really need to do is learn enough about DNF to translate “apt” commands in your head.
And maybe set up a few aliases you’re used to.
People shouldn’t HAVE to do that if they won’t want to. You should just be able to use your OS, not learn a new language to use it “okayish”
A new language? It’s one app.
And if you learn it, you are back to the same level of usage, not “okayish”.
But yeah, no one HAS to move from Ubuntu/Debian to another flavor. (Which is what OP is talking about).
No one has to move off Win 11, either, if that pain doesn’t make it worth it to them.
I shouldn’t have to learn where setting is in the windows UI every few years but that’s just the shit we live in. I find Linux easier because I just have to change one word. In windows I got to go through three different setting panels. Same but different
I just search for what I need in windows. Haven’t browsed through menus in years.
… You know there are menus with search in Linux just like Windows, right?
We’re only talking about the people who want to use the command line.
It’s less than the difference between windows CLI and poweshell. And if you’re like “I don’t use those”, guess what? You don’t need to in Linux either. You can run the update app.
I’d love to know what hardware you are using as well.
It’s the 11th Gen Framework 13 running:
- Intel® Core™ i5-1135G7, integrated Intel XE graphics chip
- Western Digital Black 770 2TB SSD
- 32gb ram (16GB x 2) Crucial DDR4-3200
I’m assuming stock ax210 wifi card as well.
I had a lot of stability issues on 11th gen Intel but I was using windows. (I have switched to an amd motherboard on my laptop (no it’s not a framework))
Yes, I’m using the Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 No vPro®. It’s been very stable, and highly performent (on Windows, at least). So far, no issues with Wifi on Fedora-based distros.
Mine had issues with integrated graphics where the driver would crash constantly.
Somewhat obvious tips to get a more stable experience:
- Use a distribution that favour stability over being on the bleeding edge. Like Debian stable, or another distribution that maintain LTS releases,
- Install software from the distribution’s official package repositories. Avoid third party packages and repos as much as possible. If you really need a third party repo, verify it’s compatible with your specific distro and has reputation for being well maintained,
- When you do see a problem, take time to troubleshoot and if necessary make a bug report with necessary information for developers to identify the problem, so there’s a better chance to see it fixed.
- If you use Linux in a professional settings, there is paid support available out there, in some cases this get you priority for bug fixes.
Good advice, also Fedora’s “atomic” distros are both bleeding edge and extremely stable!
Atomic distro sounds like an interesting way to avoid breakage due to admin/user mistakes, so it’s a good suggestion. But it doesn’t help much with bugs in new software releases.
So the best choice depends on what exactly caused instability in OP’s case.
Usually, my attempts to use it are either thwarted by issues installing, issues booting, or general problems while using it… leading to “catastrophic failure” that I can’t fix without digging into hours of research and terminal commands.
This was my experience as well … 20 years ago. I’ve not had many of these issues over the past few years using any distro. I used Debian for a couple years and now I’m on Arch. Really, it just works for me…
TBH now that I think about it, I ran in to more issues with Ubuntu than just simply using Debian.
TBH now that I think about it, I ran in to more issues with Ubuntu than just simply using Debian.
That seems to be the consensus from reading the other comments!
Yeah, I didn’t want to be not supportive of your choice of distros, but my immediate thought was not Ubuntu… I use it headless for some homelab servers, but nowadays as far as desktops go, Ubuntu is not it.
Someone below mentioned Aurora, Bazzite’s sister. I currently use Bluefin, which is another of Bazzite’s sisters, also on Framework, and it has been pretty set it and forget it. They’re all “atomic” desktops in that it’s hard to be able change the underlaying important parts of your computer, while you have free reign on all the bits that aren’t important to keep the lights on. Updates happen frequently, but don’t touch your files on top, so it’s always the latest, and if something does break, you can easily boot up into the last image you were on.
If you’re not looking to tweak your computer too much and just want it to run, I’d recommend Aurora or Bluefin depending on your desktop preferences.
Someone below mentioned Aurora, Bazzite’s sister. I currently use Bluefin, which is another of Bazzite’s sisters, also on Framework,
I know nothing about these… but I just installed Aurora in Boxes to try, and damn, it’s nice. Maybe a little “too busy”, but it’s got everything I could ask for out of the box (no need for extension manager). I might replace Mint with Aurora on my MiniPC, but if it’s as unbreakable as they say, it may replace Fedora.
Right now, Fedora has still be very stable, but since I’m staring from scratch, I might as well get it right the first time. I’ll be experimenting more to see which I prefer.
If it makes you feel any better it sort of is Fedora. Fedora has both original and atomic flavors. Someone took the atomic flavor of Fedora (which comes as a blank slate) and added in some quality of life changes. Nothing permanent, just tweaking some settings and preinstalling some programs. And then called it as Aurora.
And the only difference between Aurora and Bluefin is KDE (very customizable and Windows like) vs Gnome (customizable through widgets, but not enough if you’re a power tweaker and more of a Mac style desktop environments). And Bazzite is the same, but gamer focused (I installed it on my steamdeck).
