• surph_ninja@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    9 days ago

    I am so completely sympathetic to her cause, but handling & transporting sick chickens is so fucking dangerous. I don’t give a damn about the theft, but she risked her own life, the lives of others, and any other animals they came into contact with.

    I also want to see the abolition of slaughterhouses and factory farms, but I think the best way to do that right now is to fight for subsidies for vat grown meat alternatives. And fight states like Florida trying to outlaw vat grown meat.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 days ago

      Subsidies for meat alternatives are a very liberal non-solution. The tech is not there for meat outside of ground beef and the state shouldn’t be subsidizing to create a different problem, the issue with the USA’s ridiculous meat overproduction and consumption isn’t that there’s a slaughter in the process, it’s that the amount of manpower/water/energy required is ridiculous. The subsidies should be substantially reduced for meat and dairy, and price controls (or outright government handouts) should be in place for staple foodstuffs.

      If grains and legumes become cheaper, people will find a way to make them tastier and eat them way more often.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        8 days ago

        If you can only consider solutions that require everyone to give up eating meat, you will never get enough people on board.

        • IttihadChe@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 days ago

          They said nothing about everyone giving up on meat.

          We don’t have infinite resources on our finite planet. People need to eat less meat. They stated some ways to encourage that transition.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            7 days ago

            Eating meat doesn’t sustain some kind of curse. It’s an environmental problem because of current factory farming methods. They’ve invented a better method, and you’re sticking to your guns as if it’s the act of eating causing the pollution, and not the production. Moronic.

            • IttihadChe@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              7 days ago

              It is an environmental problem because the resources required to obtain the same caloric/nutritional content from meat is far higher than the alternatives. If the “better method” is better than our current method of meat production but still too intensive to maintain at scale then it doesn’t solve the problem without reducing the scale of meat consumption.

              That doesn’t mean nobody can eat meat, it just means that on average people need to eat LESS meat.

              Why are you so against people eating less meat? Your arguments here are akin to the “nuclear energy” bros who rag on renewables all day. Just like we can use renewables and rely on nuclear to fill any gaps, we can lessen meat consumption and rely on less intensive forms of meat production to fill the gaps.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                6 days ago

                That’s simply not true. The energy cost for beef is astronomical.

                How do you plan to enforce less meat consumption?

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 days ago

                  Rationing. No store is allowed to sell more than X amount of meat to any individual.

                  It’d create black markets and such, but the overall consumption would still go down.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    5 days ago

                    You can want that all day. Still an absolutely unworkable plan. If you actually care about the environment, work towards realistic goals instead of letting perfect be the enemy of good.

                • IttihadChe@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 days ago

                  What did I say that isn’t true? I never said the energy cost of beef wasn’t huge. Quite the opposite in fact…

        • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 days ago

          I have a solution: don’t give up meat and you collapse the fucking ecosystem and then you’ll give up meat because you’ll be starving to death

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            7 days ago

            The fact that a better alternative is becoming available, and y’all are still insisting the only possible option is giving up meat entirely, really proves that it’s not about the environment and y’all just want to force your choices on everyone else.

            • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              6 days ago

              What a profoundly fucking stupid thing to say.

              Because there are alternatives

              It proves your argument about the environment is a deceptive lie you’re using cynically

              Selfish spoiled little baby ‘I want to do whatever I want no matter what it costs the world outside of me’ because I’m the only thing in the universe that matters me me me me

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                6 days ago

                I’m a vegetarian, dumbass. But I understand it will be quicker to build vat grown meat facilities than convert everyone to vegetarianism. We do not have more than a generation or two before the planet becomes unlivable.

                Grow up.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  6 days ago

                  We don’t have a generation or two left.

                  People can choose to give up meat now or they’ll give up meat later when no one can afford it anymore. I won’t need to force them to become vegetarian, the economic conditions will do it for me. I’ll just be ready before everyone else.

                  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    5 days ago

                    So we’re going to rely on voluntary behavior from people and Big Ag producers. That’s a fucking abysmal plan.

            • Grapho@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              7 days ago

              It’s not available. It’s an expensive, comparatively hands-on process that can only produce good ground beef and shitty everything else.

              You know something that tastes like meat, has the texture of meat, and has the nutritional qualities of meat? Fucking meat, which you could still have if you really wanted it, you’d just have to do it once every few weeks instead of twice a day.

              Failing that, there’s already a high protein meat substitute that has good texture, flavor and is super cheap in terms of labor and water, it’s called a mushroom.

              it really proves that it’s not about the environment and y’all just want to force your choices

              Lmao. Believe it or not, most people don’t give a single shit about your dietary choices. I love meat myself, if lab grown meat were as good, could be as cheap, or as labor efficient, I’d be all for it like I am for, say, nuclear. But it just ain’t so, this futurist fetishism that some libs have is so fucking ridiculous and it’s really telling that when people tell you why it’s just not feasible your first instinct is to go “you’re literally 1984ing me rn”

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                6 days ago

                Uh huh. So unfeasible, but Big Ag lobbyists are working to get it banned in multiple states (already successful in Florida)? Something doesn’t add up.

                • Grapho@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 days ago

                  trying to ban the competition is just business as usual in the US, that’s ridiculously far from lab grown meat being a viable alternative.

                  Again, you can make fine burger meat with that process, anything else is fucking shit at the moment. It probably will get better eventually, but who knows how long it’ll be and there’s other sources of protein readily available already that don’t entail giving enormous subsidies to yet another fucking corporation.